April 4, 2025

Childbirth Educator & Podcaster Katherine Stephens on the Needs of Expectant Moms

Childbirth Educator & Podcaster Katherine Stephens on the Needs of Expectant Moms
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In this politics-free episode of the show, Dave invites podcaster and Certified Childbirth Educator & Coach, Katherine Stephens onto the program to discuss all things maternal. As fate would have it, Katherine is Dave's neice, but most importantly she is a devoted mom to her five children, which has helped her become something of an authority on childbirth, both of the natural and Cesarian variety. Her website, made4birth.com, offers a wealth of information for expectant moms on what to anticipate before, during, and after the birth of a child, as does her rapidly growing podcast, "Made for Birth, the VBAC Podcast for Birth After Cesarian" (heard on Apple Podcast, Amazon Podcast, Podcast Republic, and Audible, among other platforms.

Katherine's own experience has ignited a heartfelt passion to support moms navigate the birth experience, prompting her to become a Cerfied Doula in order to provide moms with continual emotional, physical, and informational support. She is also a Certified Birth and Newborn Photographer. As Katherine's website explains, "Your experience matters. You were made for birth. Walk through it with confidence."

And guys, there is some much-needed information for you in this episode as well, as Katherine goes into detail about Post Partum Depression, her own experience, and what you can do to help your spouse through the process.

Finally, Dave addresses the show's addition of nonpolitical topics to the already brimming list of political and cultural topics he addresses. It doesn't have to be either/or, so look a touch of variety to the program in addition a video and live-stream dimension coming soon. "It's a fun time to be behind the mic," Dave said, adding, "we're going to engage the audience on mulitple levels with multiple topics." Stay tuned....

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Storytelling the story of hell.

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It's Dave Carter and this is the Dave Carter Show.

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Oh yeah, it's about time and loudhead Macy Baby. It's

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been too long since I last talked to you, folks,

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and now I've been shopping at the bit here were

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ready to get at it and back to enjoying some

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time with you, folks. I've missed you, guys. A lot

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of things to tell you about, lots of really cool

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programming changes that are on the horizon, about which more

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and a bit by the way. Yes, I am Dave Carter.

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I'll be your tour guide on this excursion into compelling conversation.

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Today.

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Coming up, I'm delighted and positively giddy to welcome a

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very special guest on the show. Catherine Stevens is an

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up and coming podcaster. Her podcast is called Made for Birth,

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the VBAC Podcast for Birth after Cesarean. How's that for

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a change of pace. Miss Stevens and her hobby have

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five kids, and so she speaks with some authority on

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all this stuff. You remember the Brady Show, of the

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Brady Bunch Show from Gosh Becker in the seventies or so.

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That's the situation in which the husband and the wife

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each had kids from previous marriages, and they brought the

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kids to one family, if you will, six of them,

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but they brought them all to half each. Well, Katherine

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and her husband are kind of taking care business in house,

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as they were so. And additionally, she's a childbirth educator,

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childbirth photographer, and she's a certified doula, which we will

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get into and explore in a bit. I should hasten

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to add that she's my niece and her middle name, Marguerite,

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is from my grandmother. And let's just say that Katherine's

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middle name is totally and completely appropriate. My grandmother Marguerite

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was a force of nature. She was diminutive, She's just

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a short lady, a small little lady, but she was

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just pure dynamite. If you watched Catherine Hepburn years ago

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in the movies, and you pretty much saw my grandmother

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in action. So we will talk with her namesake appropriately.

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So Catherine Marguerite Stevens coming up shortly. But first there's

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something I want to talk to you about. We devote

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a great deal of attention to current events and political intrigue,

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that kind of thing, but you know, it doesn't have

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to be the sum total of our existence, whether in

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our lives or even on this broadcast. So much of

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our lives is subsumed in politics in the last few

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years especially, and it sort of dwarfs everything, and there's

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very little anymore that is not politicized. It should not

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be that way. It should never have been that way.

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And on this show we're going to start talking about

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other things as well. There's a huge, great, wonderful world

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out there, brimming with things that smile, things to laugh

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about and enjoy.

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You know.

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Even the Cajun culture that infused my home stomping grounds

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in Louisiana embraces something called jois de viv which is

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the joy of life. I like to enjoy that more

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here on this program, and that's something we're going to

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do going forward, in addition to some other changes that

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I will talk to you about later in the show.

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I told my wife that this is going to be

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a politics free episode of the show and that we're

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going to be doing more to this kind of thing

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going forward, and she was delighted, just giddy about it. Really.

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She may be a bit concerned about the joy of

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life thing, at least as it pertains to me, because

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she's known me for oh gosh, around thirty years, a

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little over thirty years, and she's very familiar with my

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tendencies toward sophomooric, juvenile, indeed, locker room kind of humor.

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And she'll she'll but she'll be the first to tell you,

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I spend most of my time around her just trying

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to make her laugh, because she's got the most beautiful,

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effervescent laugh on the planet, and so I try to

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get a laugh out of her. And what I do

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it's like a drug, you know. I'm like the cocaine hit,

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hitting the cocaine bar, the little labratt trying to get

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more and more laughs. And once I get that giggle,

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and it's off to the races. And if I succeed

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in the pinnacle of the laugh experience and she does

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one of those you know, snort laughs, kind of like

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that that kind of thing, Oh, it's on, it's on.

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We are going to have so much fun. Then there

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are times when she will say something completely innocuous, something

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totally innocent, and I'll have this kind of it's like

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a Beavis and butt Head epiphany about this innocent thing

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that she's said, and I'll start laughing, which usually prompts

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her to say something like you are twelve years old,

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you know that, which yeah, I know, I know, which

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makes me laugh even more, and I will invariably repeat

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what she originally said, that innocuous, innocent remark with a

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locker room twist to it, and it just is kind

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of the rates from there. It's it's not her fault. Really,

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she's on the receiving end of the madness. She didn't

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start it, and truth be told, she engages in it occasionally.

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But it reminds me of the stuff that I did

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back one hundred and fifty seven years ago when I

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first started that in radio, which is primarily an exercise

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for me to get away with that kind of humor

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and get paid for it. And it worked out pretty well. Actually,

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I enjoyed it. It was in WGBR in Goldsborough, North Carolina,

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the station carrying Rush and Bruce Williams and who's the

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guy that always is talking about aliens and things. Anyway,

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I kept calling the station hoping wanted to know if

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I could possibly possibly get a job there, and they

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put me through to the program manage program director Tony walker,

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and he said, look, come on down, we'll talk. That's

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all I can promise you, but I will talk with you.

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So I went down. They brought me into the studio

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and Tony and I sat down and started talking. I

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began asking questions about what all this does and what

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does that button do? Don't push it, okay, I won't,

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but what does it do? And then I would get

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off on one of my little tangents about this or that,

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and he finally said, you know, you have what we

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call a defined or a definite personality that I think

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would transfer into something interesting on the air, which is

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a nice way of saying they would take a personality

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flaw and try to make the money off of it.

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And I was very cool with it. So he offered

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me a show. I could use a stage name or whatever.

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I have a riser fall using my name, and the

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Dave Carter Show began my first day on the air.

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It was a smaller station, so it was not a

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place where you had a board operator and then in

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another room you had the talent. No, the guy on

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the air was also the board operator. So I got

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the microphone in front of me. I've got enough a

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control panel Its like I came out of the Space

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Shuttle and I'm trying to hit the little buttons and

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do what I have to do with the knobs and

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the switches and the little slides that pot on and

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up and up and down for the volume, and at

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the same time trying to remember what the devil I

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was talking about. It was a lot of fun. I

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loved it, but it was very It was adrenaline rush,

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a serious adrenaline rush, so that when we went to break,

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I would take the slide from the microphone volume, slide

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it all the way down, and then for the while

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we were in commercial break and they couldn't hear me,

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I would launch into thirty to sixty. You know, however,

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many minutes or seconds of just one just just non

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stop cussing, basically, just to decompress a little bit, get

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the adrenaline. Let's event that a little bit and get

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my equilibrium back before we went back on the air.

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And this went on from one break to the other,

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and then finally we went to a break and I

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moved the slide down for the volume on the mic.

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I didn't realize it. I did not move the slide

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down all the way so The last thing that the

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audience heard as we went to break was telling me

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flying through the air, landing practically over me and yelling, hey,

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don't cuss yet. I miss those days. That was incredibly

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just too much fun.

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Talking about it. Say cut a show, all right.

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Let me ask you a question here. You ever heard

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of something called notion. Now it's not just a word

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that implies an idea or a thought, but it's an

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app that helps take your ideas and thoughts and helps

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them become a reality. So let notion. Let the Notion

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app help you do your workflow, your way and put

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all your projects, goals, calendars, organization, roadmaps all in one

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user friendly tool. Forbes calls it your AI everything app.

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I use it to organize projects, keep track of my

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to do list, calendars, workflow for everything from the articles

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I write to the podcast production. I have a whole

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resource library material that I add to constantly and use

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that for reference. There's a journal there as well, and

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I've got a little writer's workspace that I use. All

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kinds of templates that you can use to customize it

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for whatever it is that you need. It's like your

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go to brain. Basically, I even use notion to as

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symbol and host my own website for example, And it

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works just great. I use it, my friends use it,

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and you should use it too. It sinks automatically to

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all your devices, phones, tablets, laptops, desktop, vacuum cleaner. Well, no,

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that would suck, but you get the idea. So head

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over to Google Play or the Apple Store, whatever you got,

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and type in notion and look for the little white cube.

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There's got a big in on it, you know, in

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for knowledge. You'd be got to check this thing out

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and see how it works for your situation. I'm telling

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you you're going to love this thing to death.

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You're listening to eighty five point three FM and you've

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just heard my two favorite bands, Filter and the Refreshments

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Shut up the Day Carter Show.

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All right, now comes the highlight of the show, and

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my guest is, in all honesty, the highlight of any

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room that she walks into. Catherine Stevens is first and

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foremost the child of God and a child of two

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amazing and loving parents. She's a duoted wife and a

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mom to five quite active youngsters, and she's an accomplished

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professional photographer and has been for well over a decade,

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I believe, and she's found a profound purpose in her

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life by doing everything she possibly can to help expectant

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mothers before, during, and after the birth of their child.

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I mentioned earlier in the first segment. She's a certified doula,

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a childbirth educator and coach, and a certified birth and

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newborn photographer, and it's an honor and a special kind

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of cool to welcome her to the show. Good afternoon, Catherine, Hi,

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how are you? I am having way too much fun

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for one person, but I somehow managed to get by.

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How about you doing? You've had a busy day, haven't you.

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I have had a very busy day, but it has

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been full of a lot of joy and things that

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I love to do.

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Good good, we was fantastic and welcome to the program.

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So Catherine also has a website while I have everyone's

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attention here, which you can find at madefo birth dot com.

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That's made the number four birth dot com, and she

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hosts a podcast called made for Birth, the VBAC podcast

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for Birth after Cesarean. It's heard on Apple Podcasts, Amazon

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podcast podcast, Republic, Audible, and several other platforms. I believe,

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and I've said this before, Catherine, you may not have

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heard it, so I'll say it again. But there is

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nothing on this earth as strong or as holy actually

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as a mother's love for her child. And I've seen

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up close how devoted you are to your kids. What

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was it that prompted you, or led you to the realization,

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if you will, that helping expectant mothers would become your calling?

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How did that all come about?

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Actually through my own experience, and so it really wasn't

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until I was getting ready for the birth of my

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third child that I started questioning the medical system and

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what went on with my previous berths. Just so that

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everyone knows, my first birth was an induction, so they

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scheduled it. You go into the hospital to give you

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medication so that you can start the process of labor

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to have your baby, and it ended pretty shortly in

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the C section. And so with my second birth, I

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really wasn't given the option to labor again. I was

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just told, you've already had a sea section, you need

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to have another one. And so that's what we did.

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We had a planned sea section, and it was beautiful,

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it was very empowering. But whenever I found out that

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I was pregnant with my third something, and me told

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me I wanted a different experience and that wasn't an

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option with the physician that I had currently, and so

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I began to look at other options. And when I

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started diving into research to see exactly, like, you know,

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what's out there, what's possible, what can my body do?

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It absolutely blew me away. And the more that I

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learned in preparation for that third berth, the more that

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I felt this calling to share it with everybody else

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because if I didn't know, then there's plenty of other

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women out there who have no idea as well. And

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that didn't sit very well with me, and so I

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changed providers. I went on to have a vaginal birth

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after a cesarean, which we call in the birth world

246
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a v back, and it was just one of those

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experiences that was so powering and I learned so much

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along the journey that after that baby was born, it

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set a fire in me to literally share it with

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as many people as I could. And that's what got

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me to Mariam today.

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Okay, now this may seem like a random question, and

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that's because they I have a great many of those

254
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a lot of times, but I know I'm uniquely clueless

255
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about a great many things, but I may not be

256
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the only person listening to this and asking what's a doula?

257
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I mean it kind of sounds like a body part,

258
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you know, by playing ball, I spraying my doula Rylson

259
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dird On and I'm all right, but what is a doula?

260
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So a doula is a form of birth support. Okay,

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So when you're having a baby, there's several different elements

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to a birth team. You have you the pregnant person,

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You have your partner, usually have a provider, whether that's

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a physician that went to medical school or a midwife

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that went through training. And then you can also have

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a doula, which is like another type of birth support.

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It's somebody to walk along with you through your pregnancy,

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to coach you through birth education, what is to come,

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and then to actually attend your birth with you and

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be that extra form of outside support that's consistent, because

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something that really lacks in the birth system right now

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is consistency during labor. So we have ellen D nurses.

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They are absolutely phenomenal, but they're not one to one

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with a patient. They usually have several patients that they're

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attending to at the same time, so they're not able

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to be a consistent body in the room to oversee

277
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how labor's going, to give suggestions where needed, and all

278
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of that. So that's kind of where doula's step in is.

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We offer birth support during pregnancy. We offer birth support

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during the actual birth if the mom wants us there,

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and then also postpartum, when a lot of people really

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feel like that emotions hit them and they feel more

283
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lonely and they're uncertain of how to take care of

284
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their baby. Doulas are still that consistent person that can

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help them along through that journey as well.

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That's one of the things I would think that separates

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you from a midwife is the post birth support well correct.

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And also, doas are not trained medical professionals in the

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sense that we don't give medical advice. We didn't go

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to any type of formal training to know how to

291
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assess pregnancy, how to recognize abnormalities, how to treat them.

292
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We don't diagnose anything. We are there for emotional, informational

293
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and physical support.

294
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Okay, so you could operate and along with a midwife

295
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and you guys would not duplicate each other's efforts.

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Then absolutely they don't crisscrossed. So there is a lot

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of things that midwives do that are similar to a

298
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doula in the sense that you get a more women's

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centered approach and care. It is a little bit more

300
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with a physician, you're more in and out of the

301
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office quickly. It's much more clinically based. With a midwife.

302
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There's a little bit more relationship that goes on there,

303
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and so they do offer more support than you would

304
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get from a traditional OBGIM. But they can absolutely collaborate

305
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with a doula really really well.

306
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Okay, that's good. I know that many years ago, maybe

307
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not that many years ago now, no think about it,

308
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but medical orthodoxy held that if you had a cesarean,

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you would invariably keep having cesareans rather than a natural birth.

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When did that begin to change? Is that a fairly

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recent phenomenon.

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So that term that you're talking about, like wants a cesarean,

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always a cesarean is what it's been labeled as, and

314
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that was typically closer to the early nineteen hundreds. So

315
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to give you the science behind it, when cesareans were

316
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first started to be performed, they used vertical incisions, and

317
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so a mom would be place underneath the anesthesia, they

318
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would have an incision that would go vertically up their uterus,

319
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and their baby would be delivered. They would be all

320
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stitched up and good to go. But the concern with

321
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that is that whenever you labor, your uterine muscles are

322
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going to contract, right, That's how your baby gets moved

323
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down and out. But if you have an incision in

324
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that upper portion of your uterus, that's where the bulk

325
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of the contraction is. And so there was a worry

326
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that you could rupture, that it could the uterine muscle

327
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could actually separate, and it was a cause for danger

328
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from others, and so it was coined you know, once

329
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to cesarean always the saian because of that adverse outcome

330
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if you were to try to labor. But what changed

331
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was in the mid nineteen hundreds, closer to like the

332
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seventies and eighties too, they started doing low transverse incisions,

333
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which is a horizontal incision kind of on like the

334
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bikini line, underneath the pregnant belly. And so the great

335
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thing about that was that once they started doing that,

336
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it was shown that mothers could labor again after having

337
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a cesarean, because, like I said, your contractions are going

338
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to be stronger at the top of your uterus, and

339
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so if your incision is only at the bottom, yes,

340
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you still have an incision in your uterus, you're still

341
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going to have a scar, but the bottom of your

342
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uterus is not contract quite as strong and so it's

343
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not as high of a risk that you're going to

344
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have an adverse outcome. And so once they started performing

345
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that routinely, they realized that women absolutely can labor after

346
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and it was actually the norm until like the late

347
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nineteen nineties, where it wasn't even a question. You know,

348
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you had a cincerian, you get pregnant again, and they're like, hey,

349
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we really think y'all should go for a vaginal delivery

350
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because that's actually lower risk than a repeat sea section.

351
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But then at the end of the nineteen hundreds, things

352
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really started to shift. There was a lot of like

353
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insurance policies and then hospitals made v back bands, and

354
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:46.160
it got to where physicians were really nervous to do

355
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.599
vaginal birth after a cysyrian because what if there's a lawsuit,

356
00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:51.160
what if something happens, you.

357
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Know, for medical reasons.

358
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Absolutely, absolutely. The rate of rupture in women is actually

359
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not as highs people think it is, but the way

360
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that culture views it and promotes it makes it look

361
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like it is such a scary option for mothers and

362
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for babies, when in fact, like the probability that you

363
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would rupture is like one in twelve hundred, the same

364
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:18.200
probability that like a forty five year old man is

365
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:19.720
going to drop dead from a heart attack, But we

366
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don't scare them about that as soon as they hit forty,

367
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you know what I mean, And so it's just viewed

368
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in a different way.

369
00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:31.279
Okay, that makes sense, That makes sense. Am I correct?

370
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:32.960
You did say that, didn't you? That your first two

371
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.279
children were from cesareans?

372
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They were? Yeah?

373
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:38.759
Okay, So I want to get too personal here, So

374
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if at any point I asked something uncomfortable, feel free

375
00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:42.960
to say, hey, uncle Dave, could you tell another one

376
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:44.920
of those hideous fart jokes please, or something like that.

377
00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:46.920
But I'm a birth worker.

378
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:51.920
Okay, okay, so you touched on this earlier. But I'm

379
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:53.440
a guy says a lot a lot of don't know

380
00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:56.319
what compelled you to explore natural birth for your third child.

381
00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:59.000
If the first two were good.

382
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:04.279
Experiences, so my first experience wasn't exactly what I wanted.

383
00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:07.359
I really wanted what I call a natural birth with

384
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.839
my first one. I had been kind of coerced by

385
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:14.480
my physician in that first pregnancy, starting around thirty six weeks,

386
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:16.799
where she's like, you're a small person. You have a

387
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:19.160
petite frame. I really don't know if you're going to

388
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:21.240
be able to deliver your baby. We should start considering

389
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:23.960
the C section. And at that point I knew absolutely

390
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:25.960
nothing about childbirth, but I knew enough to say, like,

391
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:27.720
cause this is my first baby, I really want to

392
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:32.759
experience labor. And so the compromise that we came to was, okay,

393
00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:34.759
well I will let you. You know, this is a

394
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:38.920
position speaking. I will let you labor if you allow

395
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:40.680
me to induce you at thirty nine weeks so that

396
00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:43.359
your baby is not too big, and so, knowing absolutely

397
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:45.599
nothing about how birth takes place, I'm like, sounds like

398
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.519
a good compromise. It's not surgery. So we went in

399
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:51.680
for my induction. I only labored five to six hours.

400
00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:54.720
I was, from what I know now, progressing veryly well

401
00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:57.559
for a first time mom and labor. But when she

402
00:21:57.640 --> 00:21:59.559
came in at her lunch break. She was like, look,

403
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:01.880
you're not progressing as fast as I thought you were

404
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.279
going to, Like, we need to kind of intervene here.

405
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.359
Your baby could possibly go into distress at the end.

406
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.400
So I recommend that we do a sea section. And

407
00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:13.480
so me and my husband talked about it for a

408
00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:15.119
second and we're like, Okay, well, I guess we're going

409
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:16.839
to go with what she says because she's the doctor.

410
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:20.240
Let's just follow that along. So we did have a

411
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:23.039
sea section with that first one. After laboring for a

412
00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:25.799
little while. I had never had surgery in my life before.

413
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:28.640
I was not prepared at all mentally or physically for

414
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:31.640
what recovery would look like, and so that was really hard.

415
00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:36.759
So whenever my second pregnancy came along about eighteen months later,

416
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:39.559
I asked, and I was like, can I please not

417
00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.799
do that again? Can we just do this the normal way?

418
00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:45.839
Can we not have that recovery? And you know, her

419
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:48.400
answer was the reason we had the sea section was

420
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:51.400
because your body couldn't deliver your baby. Your anatomy has

421
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:53.839
not changed, your pelvis is still the same. We're going

422
00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:55.839
to need to do a sea section. And I remember

423
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:58.839
feeling really bummed in that, but it also like flipped

424
00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:01.279
a switch in me to where I'm like, Okay, if

425
00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:03.400
this is going to be my story, that's fine. I

426
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.319
understand this is her recommendation, but it has to be different.

427
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:08.680
I can't go through that same thing again. And so

428
00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:12.720
I dove into research on cesareans and like how to

429
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:15.599
make it a better experience and how to make recovery easier.

430
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.000
And I did a whole lot of birth planning for

431
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:21.240
that one, and that experience, even though it was still surgery,

432
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:24.200
was night and day different. My mindset was different going

433
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:27.039
into it. My physical recovery was different because I had

434
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:30.640
prepared for it, and it was really an empowering experience.

435
00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:33.200
But whenever I found out I was pregnant with my

436
00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:37.480
third baby, I was only one year postpartum, and I

437
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:41.079
did not physically feel ready to go through another cesarean,

438
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.359
even though that second one had been better. It was

439
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:47.160
just like, I know what a hole it takes on

440
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:49.519
your body too, and what the recovery process is like.

441
00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:51.400
And if I'm a year out and I still don't

442
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:54.920
feel quote normal, you know. I was really really nervous

443
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.519
about it, and I was already a birth worker at

444
00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:00.759
that time, I did birth photography. So I spoke to

445
00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:03.720
a colleague of mine and she was like, you just

446
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:06.079
need to go for a vaginal birth, and so I

447
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.079
gave her my history and I'm like, it's not an option,

448
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:10.400
and she's like, just read this, and she pushed me

449
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:15.440
some articles about birthing vaginally after a cesarean even multiples,

450
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:17.640
And that's what started opening my eyes. And I was like,

451
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:20.480
I can once you see something, you can't unsee it,

452
00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:22.400
you know what I mean. Once you have that knowledge,

453
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.200
it affects everything, right, And it really propelled me forward.

454
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:30.559
But the deciding factor for eventually switching providers and finding

455
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:34.839
someone who was supportive was really trying to make it

456
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:38.519
the best experience possible for me, but also like make

457
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:39.920
me be able to be the best of all I

458
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:40.759
could be for my kids.

459
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:43.799
Right, And you got, well how old are your kids?

460
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:47.880
You on the no, You're good, I think.

461
00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:52.240
I remember my oldest is eight and a half and

462
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:53.680
then I have a six and a half year old,

463
00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:55.720
and then I have a four year old that will

464
00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:58.079
be five in June. And then I have a three

465
00:24:58.119 --> 00:24:59.359
year old and I have a one year old.

466
00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:04.119
Okay, this is crowd control now, so you're about eighteen

467
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:07.000
to twenty four months between children, Is that about right

468
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:08.720
on average?

469
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:10.839
Yeah, the first two or twenty five and then we

470
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:13.720
had twenty one months in between, and then seventeen tho's

471
00:25:13.720 --> 00:25:16.839
got sandwich together, and then another twenty one month gap.

472
00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:21.160
What sort of health risk are there? Health risks I

473
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:25.480
should say, as you have more children, I would imagine

474
00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:28.759
it takes a toll on you. Does it affect the child?

475
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:32.640
What are there any other words? What I'm asking I guess,

476
00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:36.640
is there any health repercussions that get a little bit

477
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:38.400
more risky the more children that you have.

478
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:42.960
So in regards to scyrians, there's absolutely more risk that

479
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:45.799
can happen the more that you have. And so it

480
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.000
all kind of has to do with how your placenta,

481
00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:50.240
which is the organ that your body develops to nourish

482
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:53.880
your baby throughout pregnancy, all about how it embeds in

483
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:56.000
the lining of your uterus, which is where it lives

484
00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:58.119
for the duration of your pregnancy, and then after you

485
00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:01.000
have your baby, it's expelled out it's no longer needed.

486
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:04.599
So when you have multiple cyesaians, you run the risk

487
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:08.079
of something called placenta acreta and that's just a fancy

488
00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:11.799
way of saying that your placenta attaches to the inside

489
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:15.519
of your uterus too deeply, and the risk with that

490
00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:18.799
is that if it can't naturally detach after you have

491
00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:21.960
a baby, then you run the risk of hemorrhage, You

492
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:23.960
run the risk of maybe needing a hysterecte. To me,

493
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:26.960
like right on the spot. There's a whole lot involved

494
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:29.519
in that, and so every single C section that you

495
00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:32.559
have increases the risk of that, and that's something that

496
00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:36.240
you can't control. You can get pregnant, but you can't

497
00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:39.200
control where or how your placenta is going to embed

498
00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:42.119
into your uterus, and so that is a risk. That

499
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.400
was something that I was really worried about. The provider

500
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.000
that I had initially was very much of the mindset,

501
00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:50.599
you know, you can have as many cyarians as you want,

502
00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:52.400
like we're just going to take it case by case,

503
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:55.519
and there are some doctors who are you know, you

504
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:57.319
can have two, you can have three and then we're done.

505
00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:59.920
Or there's some that there's someone out there who have

506
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.039
had six or seven cesareans and they haven't had complications,

507
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:06.640
and so it does increase your risk of it, but

508
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:10.119
doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen. Does that make sense?

509
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:10.359
Yeah?

510
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.480
Yeah, it does. Yeah, okay, And speaking of health risk,

511
00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:16.279
let's talk to the guys for a moment. There's an

512
00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:19.079
old joke that if women ran the world, there would

513
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:21.960
not be any more wars. However, every twenty eight days

514
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:27.319
all the men would have to go fishing for hormonal reasons. So,

515
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:30.559
and I know that postpartum depression I won't me to

516
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:33.880
make light of it is very real. What can husbands

517
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.680
do to support wives who were dealing with those kinds

518
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.000
of issues? I mean, your husband, was he, you know,

519
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:44.079
tempted to call an exorcist or anything, or do the

520
00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:47.400
everything go smoothly? Or what can guys do to help

521
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:48.319
to help the ladies out?

522
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:55.400
Well? Speaking personally, I have really hard postpartums, whether it

523
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:57.400
was my first two and I had no idea what

524
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:00.759
was going on with in my body, or even the third, fourth,

525
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.319
and fifth where I knew what to expect, but you

526
00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:06.160
still can't stop it. And so I think the first

527
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:09.240
thing that's really important for men is to educate yourself,

528
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:12.720
whether your wife is doing any type of childbirth education

529
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:15.680
that includes postpartum two, or whether you're diving into it

530
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:18.119
like on your own. I think it's so important to

531
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:22.160
understand the hormone shift that happens after pregnancy, because once

532
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:26.480
you understand that, it gives context to why your wife

533
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:28.599
is losing her mind or why she is sad, or

534
00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:31.519
why she's crying because you ate the last of the

535
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:33.799
food and she really thought she might want it later

536
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:36.920
that afternoon, you know. And so it really helps give

537
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:41.000
that context to say, Okay, this is not rational thinking.

538
00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:45.799
It's really not, but here's why. And so I think

539
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.200
one thing that's really important to understand is we were

540
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:50.960
just talking about that placenta. So the organ that a

541
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:55.839
woman's body creates to sustain her baby throughout pregnancy, it's

542
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:59.640
holding all those hormones throughout the pregnancy. And so once

543
00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:02.440
it's all those hormones in it, that's what's given the baby.

544
00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:05.720
What it means, that's what's sustaining the pregnancy. When you

545
00:29:05.799 --> 00:29:10.799
birth your baby, your placenta also detaches several minutes after birth,

546
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:13.680
and you birth that as well. And so if that's

547
00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:15.960
holding all of your pregnancy hormones, which are at an

548
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:20.000
all time high, all of a sudden, those hormones are gone.

549
00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:23.519
And so I'd like to describe it to my clients

550
00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:25.880
as like, let's say you are standing on the edge

551
00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:29.160
of the cliff and you just drop. That's what happens

552
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:31.839
to your hormones is that they are at this really

553
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:33.640
big high, You're at the top of the mountain, and

554
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:36.519
then all of a sudden, your pregnancy is over. You

555
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:38.160
have your baby, and like, yes, there's going to be

556
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:41.640
associated hormones with that that are phenomenal, but the bulk

557
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:44.079
of those hormones are just going to really drop off

558
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:47.799
the edge. And so usually women between like days three

559
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:52.119
to five, sometimes seven, really experience like a dip in moods,

560
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.119
or they may feel very sad, or they're just all

561
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:58.839
what we call all in our feelings, right, we don't

562
00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:00.720
know what it is. We really don't know how to

563
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:06.599
explain it other than like I'm just super sad. For me,

564
00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:08.880
it always hits me really hard on day five. I

565
00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:10.839
don't know what's magical about that day for me, but

566
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:15.359
that's when my hormones are at their lowest. And my

567
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:19.279
husband has come to recognize that over multiple births, I

568
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:22.119
tell you what, And the first in the second one,

569
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:24.319
it was really hard and I did spiral into a

570
00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:28.799
postpartum depression. Because I felt upset, but I also felt

571
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:32.200
very inadequate, and I felt lonely, and I was very withdrawn.

572
00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:35.680
Not on purpose, it's just when you don't feel normal,

573
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:37.400
you don't want to go out and do things, you

574
00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:40.519
don't want to be around your people, you just kind

575
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:43.599
of withdrawal and you isolate yourself by accident, you know

576
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:46.480
what I mean. And so postpartum depression is very real.

577
00:30:46.599 --> 00:30:48.599
It does have to do with hormones and stuff too,

578
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:50.839
and it's a very lonely thing to experience.

579
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:53.720
I didn't know that it started out that quickly, that

580
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:56.440
it could begin as early as five days out. How

581
00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:59.079
long does it last or is there a I guess

582
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:00.359
if this invariance.

583
00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:04.200
Is there, there are variances. So typically if you're talking

584
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:11.039
about postpartum depression, there's different types of severities. Okay, so

585
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:13.039
you can rab what they call the baby blues, which

586
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:15.319
is pretty normal. It has to do with that hormone drop.

587
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.200
It's within like a week to like the first four

588
00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:20.880
weeks or so, where you may feel like dips and

589
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:24.559
emotions or things like that. Postpartum depression is when it

590
00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:27.000
extends past that and it kind of runs a little

591
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.079
bit deeper and so if you think about how our

592
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:33.160
brains work and how like thinking in general works, if

593
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:36.440
you are thinking about something negative, then it's hard to

594
00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:39.559
think about something positive. Right. You can make that reframe,

595
00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:41.480
but if your brain's not really trained to do that,

596
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:43.640
you're going to focus on the negative, which is going

597
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:45.640
to attract more negative and you can think of it

598
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:49.559
as like a snowball. And so, some women are very

599
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:53.160
self aware of what's going on, and they are able

600
00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:56.920
to recognize early on that they need some mindset shifts

601
00:31:56.920 --> 00:31:59.079
and need to change their perspective and things like that,

602
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:02.440
and they may be able to not suffer from postpartum

603
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:06.519
depression quite as long. And there's other women who either

604
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:09.960
are not super aware or they have some hormone imbalances

605
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:12.480
that make it really difficult for them, and they can

606
00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:15.920
snowball into what we call a further postpartum depression. And

607
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:18.880
then there's even like a severity of called postpartum psychosis,

608
00:32:18.920 --> 00:32:21.799
which is like an actual mental health disorder that you

609
00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:24.119
need therapy for, and it can be very scary. And

610
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:26.480
that's when you hear of women who you thought were

611
00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:30.519
completely fine committing suicide postpartum because they just couldn't deal

612
00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:33.839
with life anymore, and so there's definitely a huge spectrum

613
00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:37.440
when it comes to this, but I think that it's

614
00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:42.200
really important to recognize it early on and be able

615
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:44.960
to have like a support group. Support is like the

616
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:48.319
main key, whether it's just your partner, whether it's partner

617
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:50.799
and family, somebody to say there, to be there and

618
00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:53.039
say like, I see you, what do you need? What

619
00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:55.039
can I do for you? Or can I literally just

620
00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:57.559
sit next to you and hold space for you? Because

621
00:32:57.559 --> 00:32:59.640
sometimes it's not something that we need fixed. And I

622
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:02.559
think that's hard for some men to understand. It is

623
00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:05.960
for my husband, he's very much a fixer, like what's

624
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:07.599
going on? Are you hungry? Let me make you food?

625
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:07.839
You know.

626
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:11.640
But like when you're a postpartum sometimes you can't pinpoint

627
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:14.279
what needs to be fixed. Sometimes nothing really needs to

628
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:16.519
be fixed. You just need a presence of someone else

629
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:21.079
with you, you know that.

630
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:23.759
I hope the guys are listening to this. That'd be

631
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:25.359
the good subject for a book, wouldn't it.

632
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:30.039
I hope it will.

633
00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:32.599
Yeah, Yo, oh are you doing? Are you working on that?

634
00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:36.319
I am. I've been working on a book on postpartum

635
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:40.279
depression and anxiety since twenty twenty one. And I'm getting

636
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:43.680
really close, really close, and I'm really excited to see

637
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:46.200
how it's kind of developed over the years as far

638
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:49.079
as like through my research, but also through my personal

639
00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:52.559
life and having multiple kids and having different experiences with

640
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:54.559
each one of them. I feel like it's been able

641
00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:56.680
to add a whole new dimension to this book.

642
00:33:56.839 --> 00:33:59.240
Well, I'll tell you what, whenever that's ready to go,

643
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:00.960
I'll have you back on here and we'll have a

644
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:05.799
book launch podcasts too, and get the word wonderful. So

645
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:09.840
how would you describe the current state of maternity healthcare

646
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:12.159
systems as they relate to moms and what.

647
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:12.840
They need.

648
00:34:14.679 --> 00:34:16.039
In one word? Sad?

649
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:17.679
Okay, very sad.

650
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:19.840
I don't feel like they are where they could be.

651
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:24.360
And I think it has to do all with how

652
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:31.920
culture views pregnancy in general. So our humans have existed

653
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:35.480
for a really long time, right, and we have repopulated

654
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:38.599
over and over and over, and I think that medical

655
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:41.079
care has come into play and it has been a

656
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:45.039
very phenomenal thing to help when complications do arise. But

657
00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:48.079
I feel like the point that we've gotten is very

658
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:53.480
difficult because birth has become very medicalized where it's technically

659
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:57.039
not a medical event. So birth is very physiological, something

660
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:00.199
that's natural. Animals have babies, We have babies like it's

661
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:03.559
just something that happens. But I think that's what's happened

662
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:07.880
over the years is in with the intentions of trying

663
00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:12.519
to prevent that outcomes, we have been on the track

664
00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:15.400
to manage birth. And the thing about birth is that

665
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:18.159
once you start trying to manage it, it does not

666
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:21.239
unfold how it was designed to unfold. And so like

667
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:24.719
the very what we call interventions that the medical system

668
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:29.639
uses in order to try to prevent complications actually ends

669
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:34.000
up starting the domino effect of the complications. And so

670
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:36.119
I think that it's really hard because a lot of

671
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:39.639
women don't realize that they have the power within them

672
00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:43.400
to birth their babies without help, that they yes, they

673
00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:46.119
could have oversight and like someone who is trained to

674
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:48.679
make sure that everything's going how it should, but that

675
00:35:48.760 --> 00:35:52.280
they don't need X y Z to have a healthy baby.

676
00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:57.199
Okay, I need to look into more of this myself,

677
00:35:57.239 --> 00:35:59.960
because that's a new perspective for me and I like learning.

678
00:36:00.039 --> 00:36:02.199
So I'm going to have to look into that one

679
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:04.639
last question. But I want to get to it by

680
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:08.320
way of an observation. If I may I've always been

681
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:11.039
impressed by the way your parents let you and your

682
00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:13.960
siblings be free to be yourselves. And each of you

683
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:17.639
have your own different personalities, dispositions, strengths. God knows you

684
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:20.679
guys are different, but you, guys are able to develop

685
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:23.280
your own way of approaching life within the parameters and

686
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:26.159
guide rails that your parents set for you. And I've

687
00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:28.840
been amazed about your kids and how different they are.

688
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:32.880
It's just incredible that little people from parents can be

689
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:36.199
so different in their attitudes and what they dwell on

690
00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:39.519
and how they approach thing. Now to my question, with

691
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:41.639
all of the things that you do for your kids

692
00:36:42.199 --> 00:36:44.480
and the lessons you try to instill in their minds

693
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:47.280
and hearts, and how you want your kids to remember you, well,

694
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:49.719
I guess I'm asking how do you want them to

695
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.119
remember you that you let them be themselves the guide

696
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:54.880
rails or what do you want them to take in

697
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:57.559
their heart from their mom?

698
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:00.440
Like it's really a deep rooted question. I think that

699
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:06.360
it goes so many different ways, so to you, no,

700
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:08.639
but I think it's a great thing to address. I

701
00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:11.000
think as a mom, you always want what's best for

702
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:12.599
your kids as far as like you want to raise

703
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:14.079
them up the best that you can. You want them

704
00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:16.599
to grow up to be decent humans that can make

705
00:37:16.599 --> 00:37:19.880
a difference in the world. And I think that one

706
00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:21.800
thing about me in my life is that I have

707
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:24.840
always been a very busy person, and I've always tried

708
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:29.280
to really like ride that rope of yes, I am busy,

709
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:30.920
and I have my own passions and I have my

710
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:32.599
own things I want to pursue, but I still want

711
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:34.679
to be present with my kids. And I think that

712
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:38.280
something that I've really recently wanted to teach them is

713
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:40.679
that it's okay to have a passion and to do

714
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:43.559
something that's making a difference and still be a part

715
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:45.559
of your family too. And so one thing that I

716
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:47.559
really hope that they take away from me is that

717
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:50.039
you can have a good work ethic, you can do

718
00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:55.079
multiple things at once while still like nurturing relationships and

719
00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:57.719
all of those things. And so I really hope that

720
00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:00.719
one day, whenever they look back on the childhood, that

721
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:03.519
they don't say, oh, well, Mommy wasn't there this day,

722
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:06.320
you know, but they understand that, like Mommy is here

723
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:09.239
when it is super important, and she's always in like

724
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:11.519
all of the deep rooted things that we do. But

725
00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:13.639
Mommy had a job too, and it was so cool

726
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:16.119
because she did X, Y Z, and so I think

727
00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:19.239
it's really important, especial for my girls for them to

728
00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:23.199
understand that just because you're a mom doesn't mean you're

729
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:25.199
a chain to your house, and that you have to

730
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:28.719
do all of like the motherly duties twenty four to

731
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:31.920
seven until your kids leave their house. Like, it's definitely

732
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:34.800
possible to be able to still be making a difference

733
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:37.159
in the world while making a difference in your home too.

734
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:42.199
I'm sitting here grinning because in the opening segment I

735
00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:46.239
mentioned your middle name and the person that that name

736
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:48.599
came from. We know where is Granny Ball, but it

737
00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:52.840
was Marguerite. And you are the embodiment I think of

738
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:55.039
so much of the o the things that made her

739
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:58.199
just a wonderful lady. It's very impressive. And I know

740
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:00.599
you stay busy, which reminds me. Do you have revolving

741
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:02.159
door at your house? You can just get in and

742
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:04.880
out with dispatch and I have to worry about maneuvering

743
00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:09.280
the door so much because you're just constantly Yeah what.

744
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:11.440
Should my boys probably all sneak.

745
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:17.800
Out though, take a ride on? Yeah, yeah, I get it.

746
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:21.000
I get it, but I mean Marguerite would be very

747
00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:24.320
very impressed. I know, I am so. The website is

748
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:27.400
made for birth dot com. Made that that's made the

749
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:31.039
digit for birth dot com. The podcast is called Made

750
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:34.719
for Birth the VBAC podcast for Birth after Cesarean Heard,

751
00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:39.159
an Apple podcast, Amazon and all over the place. Catherine Stevens,

752
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:41.920
my delightful niece. It has been an honor to have

753
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:43.920
you on the program today. Thanks so very much for

754
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:45.639
taking the time to chat with us. It's been great.

755
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:48.360
Thank you. I'm so glad that you have me.

756
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:51.199
We will do this again. Folks, ask Katherine Stevens on

757
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:52.559
the Dave Carter Program.

758
00:39:54.119 --> 00:40:00.599
Celebrities, authors, condis people too. Oh, here all on.

759
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:01.719
The Dave Cars Show.

760
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:04.320
We'll have a decent chivalized conversation.

761
00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:09.679
All right, let me talk to you for just a

762
00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:14.599
moment here about well, about your listening habits. You enjoyed

763
00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:18.480
the show today, Wasn't Catherine fantastic? I mean, I know

764
00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:21.920
she's you know, she's family, but I think objectively speaking,

765
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:25.320
she's a compelling guest and a very driven lady when

766
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:28.559
it comes to doing things to help other folks. And

767
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:30.760
that holds true. Actually not only for her, but for

768
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:33.920
her siblings as well, my other niece Rebecca, my nephew Ryan,

769
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:37.280
who by the way, is afflicted with to some degree

770
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:40.840
with the same sense of humor that I have, which

771
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:42.440
is a good thing in my book. But who knows.

772
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:45.079
Your mileage may vary. But if you enjoyed this program,

773
00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:46.960
keep in mind that this is just one of a

774
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:50.199
constant out of a constellation a wonderful podcasts made possible

775
00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:53.119
by the Ricochet Audio Network. I mean, the show is

776
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:59.920
heard on Speaker, Spotify, Pandora, Podbeans, Stitcher, Airport, Radar, Police Band, whatever,

777
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:03.639
but Ricochet is the mothership, if you will, and on

778
00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:06.800
Ricochet you can hear and Colter, the folks from Commentary

779
00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:11.519
Magazine are there. The Federalist Hillsdale College former education Secretary

780
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:14.960
William Bennett has his own show, and so much more,

781
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.800
including the Ricochet Podcast featuring the flagship podcast preaching Peter

782
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:23.440
Robinson and personalities like Rob Long, James Lilacs. And they

783
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:27.079
interview some of the most compelling minds out there today.

784
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:29.599
So here's what you do. Haul your kaiser up to

785
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:32.639
the search bar, go to ricochet dot com. That's all

786
00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:35.840
this Ricochet dot com. Take a look at the podcast.

787
00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:46.280
They're free for the listening. Remember Shret's Ricochet dot com.

788
00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:48.880
And now back to Dave Carter on the Dave Carter Show,

789
00:41:49.239 --> 00:41:52.440
which is the Dave Carter Show starring Dave Carter here

790
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:55.119
on Ricochet, which has Dave Carter.

791
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:10.519
Thank you to James Wylis, mister Wylos for that little

792
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:13.239
segue and for the for the great intro he did

793
00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:15.920
for the program, and tons of other voice work that

794
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:20.079
he's done for us over the years to help spice

795
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:23.079
up this little corner of insanity over here. I do

796
00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:26.039
appreciate it. He's a great guy. Actually, I mentioned at

797
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:28.320
the outset of the show that we've got some changes

798
00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:32.280
coming to the program soon, and one of those things,

799
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:35.719
as I mentioned earlier, is to broaden the focus of

800
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:39.880
the program to include topics and guests other than what's

801
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:42.760
in the in the in the newspapers, what's the political

802
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:45.280
headline of the political intrigue of the day. Will still

803
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:48.719
hit excuse me, we'll still hit the current events. But

804
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:51.880
there's more to life than advancing a political agenda on

805
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:55.199
either side of the aisle. And important as those things

806
00:42:55.239 --> 00:42:58.960
are to me, not everyone's world revolves around it. You

807
00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:03.079
folks are probably normal. You're listening to this program notwithstanding,

808
00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:08.119
So let's go with that, and let's talk about various topics,

809
00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:10.400
have guests from all different walks of life, authors and

810
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:13.199
all kinds of folks on, and let's enjoy the program

811
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:15.719
and then get back to being some entertainment in addition

812
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:19.519
to the I regard as the more important things, but

813
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:23.639
there's more to life than that. Next, I'm in the

814
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:27.199
process of putting together a video portion of the show.

815
00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:29.639
You remember we did that years ago. I'm going to

816
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:33.440
resume that aspect of the program again and we will

817
00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:38.559
end up on hopefully on Rumble, and of course you

818
00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:41.800
two do some live streaming events on all those platforms,

819
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:44.920
Instagram and more. So that'll be a lot of fun,

820
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:47.840
and we'll be more coming up on that. I'm putting

821
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:50.639
some digital things together now, getting the software lined up,

822
00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:53.679
and we will have that happening as always. But even

823
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:56.079
though there'll be cameras and all that other crap, all

824
00:43:56.079 --> 00:44:00.400
those other things, the audio experience is form most in

825
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:02.760
my mind. I'm going to stay true to my radio

826
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:06.119
roots and continue to continue to do those kinds of

827
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:08.719
things and make sure that it sounds great. Whether you're

828
00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:11.639
watching the program or not, We're going to be true

829
00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:16.119
to that. So if you've enjoyed the proceedings today, please

830
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:18.599
feel free to head over to whatever platform you're listening

831
00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:20.599
to us on leave a five star rating if you wish,

832
00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:23.280
tell us what you thought of the program, ideas for

833
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:26.360
future shows, whatever's on your mind. I read all the

834
00:44:26.440 --> 00:44:29.719
comments and I'm eager to hear your thoughts on what

835
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:31.679
we can do differently, the things that you want to hear.

836
00:44:32.199 --> 00:44:35.239
Have you enjoyed the proceedings today, I've certainly enjoyed bringing

837
00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:37.679
the show to you. So with my heartfelt thanks to

838
00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:41.440
my guest Catherine Stevens, and with special thanks as always

839
00:44:41.480 --> 00:44:44.199
to hear the listener, I'm Dave Carter and I'll see

840
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:44.840
you next time.

841
00:44:48.679 --> 00:44:51.599
Thank you for listening to The Dave Carter Show. Don't

842
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:54.320
forget to subscribe on iTunes so you won't miss a

843
00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:57.719
single episode. And while you're there, please leave a review

844
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.039
and tell us what you think, and I'll be of

845
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:02.199
all of us at the Dave Carter Show and the

846
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:05.199
Ricochet Audio Network. Thank you for listening.